Are "Red Flag" ERPO Laws The Solution To Mass Shootings?

After two devastating mass shootings this past weekend, one in El Paso, TX and the other in Dayton, OH, I woke today to calls for more gun control from politicians spanning the political spectrum.  Those on the anti-gun left have gone so far as suggesting banning nearly every modern day semi-automatic firearm and having police go door to door confiscating them.  And those on the right are calling for “Red Flag” Extreme Risk Protection Order laws in every state.

But is this really the answer?  The suggestion of a door to door gun confiscation would be laughable if these people were joking- but they aren’t.  How any politician believes using what they refer to as “weapons of war” to confiscate “weapons of war” will not turn into a war, is beyond me.  Even the anti-gun, Bloomberg funded website “The Trace” admits there are at bare minimum 20 million civilian owned, modern day sporting rifles in the US, and nearly all of them have never been used to commit a crime.

So what about “Red Flag” laws?  Let’s take a quick look at Red Flag laws and what they do…

“Red Flag” laws are also called ERPO’s or Extreme Risk Protection Orders, a term coined by the anti-gun movement to deter from the negative reputation that came with “Red Flag” legislation.  Don’t be fooled though, they are the exact same thing.  Red Flag laws have actually been around since 1999, although they are quickly rising in popularity.  In fact, Connecticut had a Red Flag law in place when the Sandy Hook shooting happened and California had one in place at the time of the San Bernardino attack, the Thousands Oaks shooting, and the Gilroy Garlic Festival shooting.

The proponents and mainstream media will tell you Red Flag ERPO laws allow family or law enforcement to petition the court to have the firearms removed from someone who is proven to be a danger to themselves or others.

To the general public, this sounds pretty benign, and polling reflects that when the law is presented this way.

But what if I phrased it this way: It’s a law that allows an abusive ex to petition the court, over the phone, for $0, to have the firearms confiscated from an individual they wish to disarm.  The petition is granted based on the lowest evidentiary threshold used in court, a preponderance of evidence (meaning there is a 51% chance that the accusation is true) and when the temporary order is issued by the court, it is coupled with a search warrant.  This means the first time the accused even finds out these proceedings are taking place is when the police are at their door ready to raid their home prepared to take away their means of self defense against the same abusive ex who requested the ERPO – and possibly the means of defense for their children.

Because that is exactly what these laws do.  It is legalized swatting that can be done by a laundry list of family members, former and current roommates, and anyone you have ever been intimate with.  Don’t believe me?  Read through the 30+ pages of HB19-1177 “Red Flag” Extreme Risk Protection Orders that was just signed by the governor here in Colorado.

There is a big difference between supporting the concept of a Red Flag law, and supporting the actual legislation that is being passed. The devil is always in the details.

But do they work?

Well, we already pointed out above three mass shooting in California with one of the broadest Red Flag laws (right behind Colorado’s), as well as Sandy Hook in Connecticut.  So, no, they didn’t work to stop killers in those instances and there is zero evidence they have thwarted any attacks elsewhere.

But what about suicide? Proponents will of course tell you yes, they work.  States like Indiana pointed to stats showing suicide by firearm was decreasing.  Well, turns out it wasn’t.  It was still increasing but not at the projected rate, so they consider that a win.  In addition, suicide by other methods has skyrocketed and Indiana has dropped from 19th in the country for mental health in 2011, to 45th in 2015, and in both 2016 and 2017 suicide was the tenth leading cause of death for all residents over all demographics, and the leading cause for certain demographics.  Their Red Flag law was enacted in 2005.

Why are we seeing these results?  Because these laws have nothing to do with mental health, and everything to do with taking away the guns.  The bill sponsors here in Colorado even admitted that during the month long debate before the bill passed by ONE SINGLE vote with every Republican and three Democrats voting against it.  Watch the video here:

These laws are widely opposed by law enforcement, as they realize the danger they will put their officers and citizens in, as well as the unconstitutionality of the law.  In Colorado, more than 50 of the 64 sheriffs opposed the legislation, as did the Denver and Aurora police unions.  The ACLU has opposed legislation in other states such as Rhode Island.  And people have been killed having these Red Flag orders served, such as happened in Maryland when a woman ERPO’d her brother after a family dispute. She later admitted she did not believe he would have hurt a fly, but he was killed when he refused to turn over his guns. Trading death for death is never the answer. The lives of gun owners do not matter less than the lives of anyone else.

We should also always remember in the “do something” era, passing feel good, knee jerk, virtue signaling legislation is a waste of valuable time and resources that could be used to actually DO SOMETHING, for example Maine passed a completely different proper adjudication law to address the same issue.  You can learn about that by listening to this podcast here.

And let us never forget…

10 thoughts on “Why “Red Flag” ERPO Laws Are Not The Solution To Mass Shootings

  1. R. Howell says:

    ABOUT THE EL PASO SHOOTING

    Perfect head shots come from highly highly trained professionals. Snipers. Not this idiot who doesn’t even know how to use a firearm. Did some research. Because these tragic shootings just aren’t sitting right with a lot of folks. If you just read the headlines and listen to the reporters, you become a sheep to the wolf. The news media is your own personal blindfold. If you haven’t figured that out yet, figure it out now. Listen to them, hear what they are saying, but don’t be fooled. And if you don’t agree with that, then simply scroll on by. You surely won’t be able to comprehend the rest of this post.

    Watching the security footage of the El Paso shooter…did you notice he doesn’t even know how to hold a gun properly? It’s evident this monster had not shot a gun before, or was very new to it. Sgt of the El Paso PD states that eight people had perfect head shots. EIGHT. Its impossible to get perfect headshots from one guy in such a short amount of time. Have you ever been to a gun range? Target practice? If you haven’t, I don’t expect you to understand. But it’s hard enough to hit a still target at the bullseye while you are standing still. Imagine getting a perfect shot, eight times, with moving/running targets. This guy wasn’t the shooter. The shooters were trained.

    Nurse from El Paso trauma center states: They found rounds from different guns inside the people. The wounds are from different guns. But the news tells us there was only one shooter. What?? Lady in Walmart said she saw “people shooting” dressed in all black. She’s being attacked by news outlets and Bobby O’ Rourke (who somehow could not contain his laughter while talking about this…yea, have you seen THAT clip? Pure evil.) And now she’s being silenced. Stop making this a Democrat vs Republican issue. Stop making this about white nationalism. Stop making this about Trump (Did anyone blame Obama for even 1 of the 37 mass shootings under his watch?). Stop making this about guns. Stop being lead by the media. Something is just not right

    1. DW says:

      You are absolutely right.

    2. Patriot Solutions says:

      Correct.
      Barry tweeted on his Presidential twitter a couple of nights after the shooting to give them our guns and the shootings would stop. We elected Trump and are still loosing rights that are illegal to infringe upon. A slap across the face. Red Flags for free speech is a double whammy for total control of the slaves. We might as well leave Polis in office since the republicans are racing in competition to sell us out. Governments can not be trusted. An obvious false flag operation with video on social media of about 5 other shooters loading up in a truck and We The People are to blame somehow.
      Know a rogue fake government when it is trying to kill you is what I say.
      Hitler is proud of them.

      1. Patriot Solutions says:

        “Orlando” shooting.

        1. Anonymous says:

          Real life happening last weekend, weekend of the shootings. Spouse with drinking issue, on hydrocodone for legitimate pain, and some mental health issues freaked out at 9pm. Screaming and physically aggressive.
          When I locked myself in the bedroom, she began beating on the door and attempted unsuccessfully to force entry with an ice pick to pop the lock. I went silent, which led to her calling 911 to say I maybe had a heart attack, I came out and convinced her and them I was fine.
          I then fled the house to a friends. Had police next day accompany them back to house for belongings,apprised officer I had firearms
          in a safe. All went well.
          Next day she called police to say I had firearms she wanted removed for ” safety”. I have been living at friends house since that night.
          Good police when they called, 1) Arms are in a heavy duty safe only I have the combo and keys.
          2) Check the police blotter for what’s been happening I have no intention of returning to house.
          3) Solicited a recommendation what to do with them , as I have no where to secure them.
          4) I am filing for divorce, which I did next morning, along with a motion for her to vacate house , as I owned it prior to marriage, she’s not on deed.
          Police got the picture, took no further action.
          If this has happened after Jan 1 and she had claimed I did her some harm or threat, I’d probably have been in deep doo doo right now under new red flag law. She’s since mellowed out , hoping she won’t dial up new BS story to police before she gets booted in a couple weeks.

          1. Patriot Solutions says:

            Sounds like my neighbor (refused the “D”) at my house in the mountains who tweaks on meth and calls the cops on me every time I walk out the door. She dumps her trash in her yard in the middle of the night and call cops on me the next morning for doing it. Hides in the bush’s along the fence in complete dark throughout the night waiting for me to come out in the yard and during the day she dug a pit into the earth along her house wall where she lays down in that pit like an animal. Just watched her age 30 years in 3. Meth bad, guns good.

            Two things come to mind for you.
            1) Move to sanctuary county (address unknown don’t let it follow)
            2) Choose better females (get one that packs a gun because armed women are hot)
            Looool.

  2. Patriot Solutions says:

    Red Flags for Trump supporters aka white supremacists by the radicals are now in a hot civil war. Hollywood (MK Ultra) production called “The Hunt” to be released soon depicting radicals hunting down and murdering white Americans and/or Trump supporters aka racists, white supremacists, Nazis, Islamaphobs, homophobs, white nationalists etc. These terms are used for brain washing to justify murder while demanding you to surrender your arms in compliance to your own death by radical civil war. Guerilla warfare on the streets of America is their call to violence and if you think they are just kidding around then you have not been paying attention. Remember, the fake gun laws are so you can be easily murdered and history shows us they do not comply to laws so why should you. My suggestion though I’m not an attorney and I actually love America unlike them is to carry BUMS, (back up munitions, extra loaded mags if you want to defend your lives). I do not support violence, I support surviving it. If you didn’t solicit the knocks at your door then perhaps you should not be so inclined to answer it. Your known location and schedule can now get you killed by these radicals not to mention your tracking devices telling them right where to find you. They will come after you with rifles so if your not toting yours you are failing to grasp what I’m throwing down. The weekend is near and Colorado is scheduled for slaughter. August will be hot.
    All info is open source data on the net.
    Know your surroundings, stay frosty.

    https://www.sentinelcolorado.com/1gridhome/city-desk-arapahoe-county-da-pitches-crackdown-on-gun-law-violations-in-shadow-of-recent-mass-shootings/

  3. Patriot Solutions says:

    600 rounded up and 30 million more to go.

    https://newsbreakinglive.com/2019/08/07/breaking-over-600-arrested-in-mississippi-by-u-s-immigration-officials-in-largest-raid-in-more-than-a-decade/

    Mass deportations under way and expanding across the USA. If you don’t think they are going to resist then stop drinking the Koolaid. Traitors to the US Constitution ( Satan’s Epstein death cult pedo globalist gun grabbers) will be rounded up and sent to GITMO for a very short military tribunal then execution. The fight for America is now unfolding right before your eyes. The video of Hillary and Huma has been released (cat out of the bag) and when you see it you will know what were dealing with. I recommend the blacked version for those who have weak stomachs and nightmares. They openly plan to kill you and if you think the gov is going to protect you I highly recommend buying ammo before you figure out the hard way that you’re going to be on your own. The GOD given right to life and the protection of such is not granted by criminal authoritarians it is seized by The People and it is inalienable. Revocable only by GOD and those who seek to murder us and this is why WE REFUSE TO COMPLY.

  4. Patriot Solutions says:

    Just say “NO” to voter ID until ALL “gun control” eliminated.

    They say NO to our rights we say NO to their vote.

    Every gun law must go except 2A.

    Just say NO!

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